Katy Welter (25:27): Well, I think it's important to note that I do come from a long line of farmers. So I have that in my jeans and was raised. My dad, he would say he worked very hard to not be a farmer, but yet it's definitely part of my family. So that felt comfortable, but also a long line of crazy entrepreneurs. So the idea ... I lead with that because I feel like that's not your background, crazy entrepreneurs and farmers.

Adam Williams (26:05): No.

Katy Welter (26:06): When we would drive past ... We were living in Leadville and there was this for sale sign on the ranch and we would drive past it every day because we were working down here, and as many other people, many, many, many people have told us they saw that sign too, and we thought, "Why don't we call the number and find out about this place?" I think I hand it over to Rick because the next page of that story really comes through in our getting to know Franklin Springer who owned the ranch at that time.

Rick Bieterman (26:38): Yeah. I guess what I can say is I've always been somebody who has been up for the next adventure, who can I learn from, how can I find a mentor, who can help me understand how to solve this problem. I was a science teacher for 16 years at the same school, like you said, coaching multiple sports.

I thought that was going to be my career path forever till retirement. I think having met Katy opened this whole new window of adventure and a little bit of risk taking, but every time along the way, it's just intoxicating what we were able to do, the trips we've been able to take, the challenges we've been able to say yes to, and in a lot of cases, the success that we've been able to have.

(27:35): So the ranch is, we always call it this 50-year project. It's a project, and our mindset is it's going to take every bit of 50 years to figure it out and evolve and create something that we feel proud of, something that's sustainable. Conservation and preservation are two words that Katy and I use all the time, and it applies to the ranch, it applies to the McGinnis Gym project that we're working on, and it applies to the US Forest Service building that got us out here. So yeah, I love adventure, I do.

Katy Welter (28:17): With the ranch, to go from seeing it on the highway, from the highway to owning it and operating it, it took a lot. You probably spent, I don't know, at least 50 hours with Franklin before we bought it just like, "Show us how this works."

Adam Williams (28:42): How did he feel about that? Was that a weird request to him because he would've maybe expected a fellow rancher to buy it or what?

Katy Welter (28:49): No. His kids didn't want us to even meet him at first because they thought he'd kill the deal because he would reveal how complicated the place is because he had, but really it was also, Franklin was never going to sell to anyone who didn't get it.

This was his baby. Rick had to almost prove himself with Franklin because there's over six miles of buried underground pipeline, there's hydroelectric plants, there's obviously the hay with all the equipment that goes along with that. So Rick accompanied him. We made tons of videos, and I think over time Franklin saw that Rick could understand all of that, all of those operations, and then Franklin did it all himself, but I had to learn from him.

(29:42): The hydros regulated by FERC, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. That's the same agency that regulates the Hoover Dam. It's a bit of overkill, but also all the relationships that he had with different property owners and hay buyers. There's a lot of legal, financial aspects, but also all the agricultural and scientific aspects of the property. So together, we just had an interview for the job with him, and I think we really loved him. He passed away two years ago and we say at least every couple weeks, "Man, I wish Franklin was still here."

Rick Bieterman (30:26): Even seven years later, I'm always uncovering or mystified by something that's happening like, "Why has this not happened in seven years and right now this pipe is just oozing water from the earth? What is going on here?" I used to always be able to call Franklin or, at the very least, go back to that 50 hours of video footage.

Thank God for iPhones when we were buying the place because I just said, "Tell me where the bodies are buried. Tell me how to fix this," and anytime I called him, even in his mid 80s, he had the answer and he knew what was going on from a thousand miles away. It was amazing.

Katy Welter (31:09): That was reassuring. On the other hand, a lot of people in town told us not to trust Franklin. He's known as a character. So we were overcoming some of that. So it was a huge risk. The week we went under contract, we found out we were pregnant, and that was also like, "I guess we're really doing this," but Rick has learned the farming operations beautifully. I almost think not having a specific agricultural background might have been to your benefit. Just being a physics teacher is almost what you need.

Rick Bieterman (31:49): Yeah. I would say that, sure, my education has helped, but the on-the-job training is really what gets you through every day. It is a complicated project, but I believe in the environment and protecting it, and so the work that goes into it is I am very proud of what it's becoming.

Adam Williams (32:17): I think your willingness to learn and have the patience and the long-term view, you mentioned a 50-year idea here, those all feel a little bit foreign to me personally, and it's admirable. If I have a repair at my house to make and I think, "I don't know how to do that one," it's going to get procrastinated and put off because I'm not even looking for YouTube videos to tell me how because it's already just like, "This is just going to take more time."

And you took on this huge ranch and all of these things that are beyond my understanding, certainly, with a willingness to say, "I'll learn what I need to learn on the job." That's often going to come through, I don't want to say mistake, it's through things happening, not necessarily of your doing. It's of things just happening that you didn't foresee.

Katy Welter (33:07): Yeah, that's every day.

Rick Bieterman (33:09): Well, I think something I've learned about farming is it can be lonely. You can be isolated out there working on your land, and every day something could break. Most of the farming out here is you're in a four to five-month irrigation window.

So if you don't use your tractor for three months straight, you go to that thing, you're crossing your fingers going, "Oh, I hope this thing fires up like it did three months ago." There is a lot of opportunity for things to go wrong, but at the same time, unlimited opportunity to say, "How do I fix this?" Along with Franklin, our neighbor to the south was a tremendous mentor-

Katy Welter (33:54): Ron and Kathy Haug.

Rick Bieterman (33:55): ... in the farming industry, Ron and Kathy Haug, who recently moved to Kansas back home to their home states. I sure do miss them because-

Katy Welter (34:05): See, they went to Kansas. It wouldn't be so bad to go back to Indiana. I'm defensive of Indiana.

Rick Bieterman (34:11): No. I will say one thing that I hope comes across is that I could not do the ranch without Katy, Katy couldn't do the ranch without me. We have these skills that really compliment each other. I think that's also what's allowed us to say, "Oh, well, maybe we can try this other project. How do we use our skills together?" If one of us goes, it'll be hard to run anything to get by ourselves.

Katy Welter (34:11): Yeah, it will be a challenge.

Adam Williams (34:41): I would imagine that solitude out there that you described as being tough, which, of course, it can be. It can feel isolating and you can feel alone in trying to solve a problem or whatever, but I think that's also what appeals to a lot of people who prefer the idea, "I'd rather be outdoors. I'd rather be working with my hands, doing my own work, my own day rather than in an office in a cubicle with a bus sitting on my shoulder." So I imagine it's a good balance of days where you feel, well, maybe the whole range of emotions. I don't know. It depends on what pops up, right?

Rick Bieterman (35:14): Yup. I can be all over the place. I do miss teaching and I've had a number of part-time teaching jobs here in Colorado since we moved, and those have been hugely satisfying and gratifying. So when I have a little bit of that connecting with kids, teaching science and a little bit of the farming, I feel like that that variety is what I truly thrive on. So that's always what I'm looking for is this crazy yet balanced combination.

Adam Williams (35:50): Let's talk conservation. You mentioned water. You mentioned only this modest window out here for when there's enough irrigation or water available. Obviously, we know in the west it's a growing issue and it has been. Is that the top priority for you two with conservation and just care and how you view the future possibilities for this ranch? Is it fire mitigation? What are the leading concerns as you look into the future of this 50-year idea?

Rick Bieterman (36:26): I think it's evolving. I think we are, in a lot of ways, planning and reacting to what the environment throws at us. I'm not sure this was the best place to start a farming operation when you're side by side with all kinds of cactus. So when you see that there's some perspective out there going, "Are we doing the right thing? What are some other options? Is there a way to subtly transition fields from what they are now to something new and unique? How do we play that out?"

But you have to learn about the land first and the machinery and everything else to understand, "Okay. What is the next step?" and then-

Katy Welter (37:12): Yeah. It's just been really we're just through phase one, which has really been a study of the property, the water, the soil, the forest, but also the historic buildings on the property and the history of the property. I think we're just now transitioning to what do we do about with all this. I will say one of our top concerns is that the property remain in some states similar to what it's in today in the sense that it acts like a nature preserve.

I think that even in the time we've been there, that's only increased, meaning we perceive that we see more wildlife than ever. We think that is maybe due to the fact that their habitats are stressed everywhere else. So increasing numbers of whether it's owls or elk or moose, bobcats, mountain lions, bears, all of which we're seeing in higher numbers either on game cams or just with our eyes.

(38:20): We feel good about it being a place like that, but we also want it to be a place that our children, but other children and other people will enjoy forever. So figuring out ... It's like, "Okay. We understand the property. We know we have this big goal, which is that it be protected."

Finding the right vehicle to accomplish that is now the challenge. So we've explored conservation easements. We've explored charitable trusts. We're looking at potentially converting one of the lower fields to be a natural burial preserve, which would be an example of, "Look, it's going to be protected forever, but it has some revenue coming in from it."

Adam Williams (39:05): What would that be? I'm sorry. What is a burial preserve?

Katy Welter (39:07): It's like a cemetery where anybody can be buried there, but they just can't be embalmed, so people who either want their cremains to be buried or their body in a natural state. It's a cemetery.

That's really what we would explore, but that's a permanent decision similar to a conservation easement, where it's like there's no going back from being a cemetery, but we know that, for example, watering hay for horses and cows, that's probably not the best in highest use of water today, and seems almost certainly not the best and highest use water 20, 50 years from now. Yet the legal framework around water in Colorado is so complex that any change of use of your water entails an expensive, lengthy, and contentious process.

(40:07): So in this second phase it's like, "Okay. What is the best use of the water? Could it be we use a fraction of what we currently use and then grow more native plants? Well, how would that affect the elk who love the hay?" There's trade offs to different approaches, but ultimately, it's our hope that what we pass on is protected.

(40:33): Then I think hand-in-hand with that, we want it protected, we also want our children to not be so burdened by it. We hope, of course, like any parents that our children want to stay and it is a very special place that they love, but they shouldn't have to choose between ... They shouldn't have to devote their entire lives, as Rick does, to maintaining, and I devote a lot of time to maintaining that property. They ought to be able to pursue their own livelihood while we hope still having some connection with the ranch.

(41:09): So we want to be realistic about all those things, and we're not quite sure. There's a mix of ... We have to figure out the right mix of preserving it, also generating some income. We also have many neighbors in a subdivision that surrounds the ranch. So it's not going to become a concert venue. We probably wouldn't do that anyway, but we're cognizant that that's not an appropriate use given that there are many neighbors nearby, but just we've vetted so many different ideas for it while learning about the property, but I think we can definitely say conclusively that the goal is to protect it.

Adam Williams (41:53): A word coming to my mind is investment. If we can put this back to this idea of a 50-year investment, vision, the willingness and the patience to work through all of these things you're talking about, the legal and bureaucratic matters, the actual hands-on and the field matters, you're investing yourselves in such big ways and with such a long vision. I want to talk about community because you're also investing, you mentioned, Rick, the McGinnis gym.

There are ways that you are investing off your ranch so much in community and being part of this community, and now I'm hearing through all of this conversation there's really a long view on your being here and doing that. So what does community mean to the two of you?

Rick Bieterman (42:46): I think community is everything to us. I think we've ... Well, going back to Katy's story about her dad and her and community banks, I think a lot of what we're trying to do here does go back to that vision of what did a community bank do for the community. Katy can speak more to that too, but we're looking to invest in this community. I hate that word investment. It sounds so corporate to me, but-

Adam Williams (42:46): Yeah, it does.

Katy Welter (43:17): It resonates with me, but I'm a banker.

Adam Williams (43:19): Well, I'm glad I could split the difference by throwing it out there.

Rick Bieterman (43:23): Getting involved in the ways that we know how to get involved, whether that's through youth and through schools or whether that's through old buildings. The old buildings that we have worked on and brought us here, they have all been community-oriented. Even the ranch that we have right now, it's a longstanding, one of the oldest in the county. Though the community doesn't use it daily like we do, it is open to a number of community organizations to utilize.

(44:04): These old buildings, as Katy will say, they tell stories and the people that have been a part of those buildings, whether building them or working in them or going to school in them, those stories are really important to us because they transcend generations.

They help us understand where we came from or where this town once was and where it is now. So in a world of change, which is what we're seeing here in the valley, lots of new homes being put up, lots of people coming in, us being one of those seven years ago, eight years ago-

Adam Williams (44:45): In my household too.

Rick Bieterman (44:46): Yeah, we want to make sure that some of those reasons we came out here aren't lost, be it environment and conservation or be it history.

Adam Williams (45:01): Katy?

Katy Welter (45:02): Yeah. Definitely that long view, that's something I was raised with, even indoctrinated with through my family and the bank, which it was an investment of our time. The people who worked there were my family and I really saw the way a stable organization that collects deposits and reinvests them in the community, simple, simple concept, but it really transformed our schools. It gave people a stable livelihood in an area that was affected by the volatility of the steel industry and automotive industry. So it was just a stable thing. I think the vision was always that that be around forever.

(45:55): So without a doubt, I think everything I do involves big decisions. I try to do right by the people who worked in the bank, especially those who lost their jobs when it was sold, the community that lost as a result of that. So out here, really, I think it's a think globally, act locally kind of a thing, at least for me. We're in really, really challenging times, the planet, the people on the planet. My sister lives in Turkey, in Istanbul, and seeing the chaos that they've experienced, for example. It's not just here, it's around the world.

(46:43): I believe, and I think we both believe strongly that the things our children and we'll all need to endure and cope with what's ahead for us, those are fortunately things that they don't have to cost a lot, things like nature, things like history, music, art, and buildings, and physical places, they're the most tangible representation of those ideas and they bring people together to enjoy those things.

These crazy times were in, they're not without precedent because we look back to when the gym was built, for example, 1936. It was the height of the Great Depression, the Nazis. Nazi Germany hosted the Olympics that year. That's dark, dark times, and yet America's response was, "Let's invest everything we've got in public buildings, public arts, in our rural communities, in our urban communities. Let's get urban and rural together working."

(47:56): We feel like there's a need now more than ever for those kinds of investments. We hope that the ones we're picking are winners not for us. I don't know that we need that per se ourselves, but we want to return these assets to especially children, working families, seniors, and our community, who they need these things. They need places to play, they need places to enjoy art, and they need places to do that together.

Rick Bieterman (48:32): The gym, for example, about 20 years ago, it was condemned for storage purposes only. Our main goal and the whole reason we're doing it is so that it does go back to the school system and that that gym will be inhabited by kids ages three to adults in their hundreds utilizing the space 14, 16 hours a day. That is the feel good that we're going to get from this experience. We want to bring that back to what it was in the '30s, which was a community gathering space of all ages and all kinds.

Adam Williams (49:12): Can you explain, either of you, in a nutshell form here with the time that we have left? We're talking about you and ranching, but then we're also talking about this gym and restoration. So for anybody who's not familiar with anything of your story beyond what they're hearing right now, can you help us just connect those dots and, if it's even possible, a nutshell way of how are you involved in renovating a gym in the community?

Katy Welter (49:37): Well, the school needed help. Two years ago they said, "We need to expand. We need to make a number of facilities improvements." One of the things they offered up for sale in order to advance that goal was the McGinnis Gym, and the gym they also needed help with. We have young children.

Rick's been a public school teacher. I grew up attending public schools, and we felt like, "Hey, we've had experience with preservation of historic buildings." The ranch has 11 buildings, I think, and nine of them are on the National Register of Historic Places. I've served on the Historic Preservation Commission for six years, so I've benefited from enormous training and networking in those areas.

We knew the right people, including our neighbor, John O'Brien, who's been indispensable, but I think, really, just the experience with the ranch prepared us for this idea that, "Yeah, it is a lost cause."

(50:46): Everybody had written off the gym. The school really has just been trying to find a way to safely demolish it, and we said, "Well, what if we could restore it and we could do it for the school district for the price of demolishing it?" and they said, "Go for it." We closed September 1st last year, so we haven't had it that long and we're going to start construction here this summer.

(51:19): So I think the common thread between the two is that both require a lot of different skill sets. The ranching, which we don't have any cattle, so it's not ... I don't know, but the ranch requires all the things that you've shared, Rick, but all the farming aspects, but also legal and financial. The gym also has been just an enormous partnership.

We could list all the names, but just off the top, the school district superintendent, Lisa Yates, absolutely could not do this without their trust and support. History Colorado, which is the state's preservation agency, unbelievably, they've committed over a million dollars to the project and the United States Environmental Protection Agency, which just gave the project another million dollars to clean the building, but pulling all those things together is the common thread.

Rick Bieterman (52:21): I think speaking on that, I would have to say, again, this is Katy's specialty. She speaks government. She loves working with government, not many people do, and it's something she's been doing for a very long time. She has a skillset like no other to bring people together. It's part of our origin story out here. It's how we got out here. We purchased a government-owned building, the US Forest Service-

Katy Welter (52:56): Ranger Station.

Rick Bieterman (52:56): ... building on Main Street, which is now on the National Historic Register, and it was through a government auction, and those-

Katy Welter (53:06): Which was quite complicated to navigate.

Rick Bieterman (53:08): Most people would say, "I don't know. I'm not going to do that," but having the skillset to navigate that world has really allowed us to dive into some of these.

Katy Welter (53:18): Well, it had had problems too, at a mobile home sitting behind it with no VIN and no title, with the hitch touching the building, just stuff. We just like to take on projects where there's huge potential impact, and then you figure out, why has no one done this yet, and the reasons are like, "Oh, it's legally complicated. It's physically demanding," which I think Rick has never shied away from hard work, physical work, and that's what all these projects have in common.

(53:55): People have mentioned us, other projects like the [inaudible 00:53:58], for example, where we definitely want to do more of this. We also have the ranch to always come back to, to say, "Well, if there's a lull in hopeless complicated projects-"

Rick Bieterman (54:14): There's 11 hopeless complicated barns and cabins on the ranch to fix.

Adam Williams (54:20): You have no shortage of work, no shortage of vision. I really appreciate getting to talk with you. I feel like this only scratches the surface of so many things. I love that about this podcast. I feel like I say it in almost every conversation is that, "Oh, I want to keep going," but I hope that this shines light on something of your story for anybody who hasn't met you shines light on more of your story, for people who think they know you, it's been wonderful to sit and talk with you, both of you. Katy, Rick, thank you.

Rick Bieterman (54:20): Thank you for the opportunity.

Katy Welter (54:51): Yeah, it's really our privilege to be here and to be out here.

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Adam Williams (55:05): All right. That was Rick Bieterman and Katy Welter. If our conversation here today sparks curiosity for you, you can learn more in this episode's show notes at wearechaffee.org. If you have comments or know someone in Chaffee County, Colorado who I should consider talking with on the podcast, you can email us at info@wearechaffee.org.

We invite you to rate and review that We are Chaffee: Looking Upstream podcast on Apple, Spotify or whatever platform you use with that functionality. We also encourage you to tell others about the Looking Upstream podcast. Help us to keep growing community and connection through conversations like these.

(55:38): Once again, I'm Adam Williams, host, producer, and photographer. John Prey is engineer and producer. Thank you to KHEN 106.9 FM, our community radio partner in Salida, Colorado, to Heather Gorby for graphic and web design, to Andrea Carlstrom, Director of Chaffee County Public Health and Environment, and to Lisa Martin, Community Advocacy Coordinator for the We Are Chaffee Storytelling Initiative.

The We Are Chaffee: Looking Upstream podcast is a collaboration with the Chaffee County Department of Public Health and the Chaffee Housing Authority. It's supported by the Colorado Public Health and Environment Office of Health Disparities. You can learn more about the Looking Upstream podcast and related storytelling initiatives at wearechaffee.org and on Instagram and Facebook at We Are Chaffee.

Lastly, thank you for listening, and remember, as we say here at We Are Chaffee, share stories, make change.

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